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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jun-03-21 | | Walter Glattke: Leading off the queen for mate attack: 30.-Rb4 31.Qc3 Rxb2+ 32.Qxb2 Qxe3+ 33.Kd1 Rd8+ 34.Kc2 Rd2+ 35.Kb1 Rxb2+ 36. Kxb2 Qd4+ 37.Kb1 Rxc1 38.Kxc1 Qc4+ -++ |
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Jun-03-21
 | | FSR: 30...Rb4 31.Qc3 Rxb2+ 32.Qxb2 Qxe3+ 33.Kd1 Rd8+ 34.Kc2 Rd2+ 35.Kb1 Rxb2+ 36.Kxb2 Qe2+ 37.Kb1 Bxc1 wins. |
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| Jun-03-21 | | mel gibson: I didn't get this one.
I should have looked longer.
Stockfish 13 says:
30... Rb4
(30. .. Rb4
(♖d4-b4 ♖c1-c3 ♖b4xb3 ♖c3xb3 f7-f5 ♘f2-d1 ♕g3xg2+ ♖f1-f2 ♕g2xh3 ♔e2-d2
♗g5-h4 ♖f2-e2 f5-f4 ♔d2-c2 ♕h3-f3 ♖e2-d2 ♕f3xe4+ ♖b3-d3 f4-f3 ♘d1-c3
♕e4xd3+ ♔c2xd3 f3-f2 ♖d2-d1 f2-f1♕+ ♖d1xf1 ♖f8xf1 ♔d3-c4 ♗h4-e7 ♔c4-b3
♖f1-f5 ♔b3-c2 ♔g8-f7 ♔c2-d2 ♖f5xa5 ♔d2-d3 ♗e7-f6 ♘c3-e4 ♗f6xb2 ♘e4-d6+
♔f7-e7 ♘d6-c4 ♖a5-d5+ ♔d3-e4 ♖d5-b5 ♔e4-d3 ♖b5-b3+ ♔d3-c2 ♖b3-c3+ ♔c2xb2
♖c3xc4) +11.01/36 133)
score for Black +11.01 depth 36.
But if White follows as per the game line with.
31. Qc3 Rxb2+
(31. .. Rxb2+ (♖b4xb2+ ♔e2-e1 ♗g5-e7
♖c1-c2 ♖b2xc2 ♕c3xc2 ♕g3xe3+ ♔e1-d1 ♖f8-d8+ ♕c2-d3 ♖d8xd3+ ♘f2xd3 ♕e3xd3+
♔d1-e1 ♗e7-h4+ ♖f1-f2 ♕d3-c2 g2-g3 ♗h4xg3 h3-h4 ♕c2xf2+ ♔e1-d1 ♗g3-f4 e4-e5
♕f2-d2+) +M13/65 18)
Black wins mate in 13. |
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| Jun-03-21 | | Brenin: I missed 30 ... Rb4, and chose 30 ... R8d8, which seems enough to win despite the counterattack 31 Qxf7+, e.g. Kxf7 32 Nh1+ Ke6 33 Nxg3 Rd3 34 (or Rc3) Rf3 Rd2+ and 35 ... Rxb2, or possibly 32 ... Qf4 33 exf4 Rxe4+ and 34 ... Rxf4+. |
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| Jun-03-21 | | TheaN: Missed <30....Rb4>. Good out-of-the-box combination, hidden and useful to learn. It's a rather simple take out the defender but it's a rarer move. I eventually went with the prosaic 30....Rfd8 which wins, but for the wrong reasons. First off, also missing 31.Qxf7+?! Kxf7 32.Nh1+, which Black has to calculate carefully to asses (which I didn't), ie 32....Ke6! (not Qf4? 33.exd4! =) 33.Nxg3 Rd3 ∓. After White's prosaic 31.Rcd1 (Rfd1 Bh4 -+) Rxd1 32.Rxd1 Rxd1 and now White has no proper retakes on d1: K follows Qxf2, N follows Qxg2+ and Q follows Qxe3+, which is apparently best. No cigar, missing Rb4 <and> Rfd8 31.Qxf7+. |
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| Jun-03-21 | | Refused: e3 is the focal point of blacks attack. The only thing keeping the position together is the poor queen on b3. So let's draw her away, shall we? 30...Rb4! 31.Qc3 (or a3) Rxb2+
a) 32.Ke1 Rxf2 33.Rxf2 Bh4 should be -+ and looks good enough b) 32.Qxb2 Qxe3+ 33.Kd1 Rd8+ 34.Kc2 Rd2+ 35.Kb1 Rxb2+ 36.Kxb2 Qe2+ --+ everything's hanging |
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| Jun-03-21 | | saturn2: Black deflects the queen from controlling e3 by 30....Rb4 31 Qxb4 Qxe3+ 32. Kd1 Qxc1 or
31.Qc3 Rxb2 32.Qxb2 Qxe3 as in the game. Black gave two rooks for the queen but the white king is too exposed and the a5 pawn will fall. |
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Jun-03-21
 | | HeMateMe: Does R-d2+ also win? |
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Jun-03-21
 | | chrisowen: Afform in i ai Rb4 finale in oh abattoir aurora languish in afform blinked it flubbed it low in laddy in o divot thank block wring it quandaries ms muffs Nf2 gungho bubble in faze its jeepers its dutch locks in i cobble jag jangle ropey ins ie totadd in if go feline etcetera in i assign flush it dont grubby japs it war Rb4 box; |
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Jun-03-21
 | | Messiah: Very nice puzzle, I like it! Thank you. |
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Jun-03-21
| | chrisowen: Jeepers creepers mums a word? |
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Jun-03-21
 | | Dionysius1: What are you thinking of after 30...♖d2+ 31. ♔xd2 ? |
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Jun-03-21
 | | agb2002: Black has a bishop for a knight.
The white queen protects e3. This suggests 30... Rb4: A) 31.Qxb4 Qxe3+ 32.Kd1 Qxc1+ 33.Ke2 Qe3+ 34.Kd1 Rd8+ 35.Kc2 Rd2+ 36.Kb1 Rxf2 wins decisive material. B) 31.Qc3 Rxb2+
B.1) 32.Qxb2 Qxe3+ 33.Kd1 Rd8+ 34.Kc2 Rd2+ 35.Kb1 Rxb2+ 36.Kxb2 Qd2+ B.1.a) 37.Rc2 Qb4+ 38.Ka1 (38.Ka2 Qa4+ 39.Kb1(2) Qb5+ and 40... Qxf1 wins decisive material) 38... Bf6+ 39.Ka2 Qa4+ as in the subline. B.1.b) 37.Ka1 Bf6+ and mate in three.
B.1.c) 37.Kb1 Qb4+, followed by Bxc1 and Qxa5, wins decisive material. B.1.d) 37.Ka3 Qxa5+ followed by Bxc1 wins decisive material. B.1.e) 37.Kb3 Qxa5 - + [q+b+3p vs 2R+N].
B.2) 32.Ke1 Rxf2 (or 32... Bf6 33.Qd3 -33.Qxf6 Qxe3+ 34.Kd1 Qe2#- 33... Qxg2) 33.Rxf2 Bxe3 34.Qc2 (34.Rcc2 Bxf2+ 35.Rxf2? Qxc3 wins) 34... Bxf2+ wins two pawns at least. |
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| Jun-03-21 | | TheaN: <HeMateMe: Does R-d2+ also win? Dionysius1: What are you thinking of after 30...♖d2+ 31. ♔xd2 ?> Considered 30....Rd2+ briefly, but what does it accomplish? The point with starting moves in a combination is that they open up something, or deflect/lure a piece based on 'taking out the defender'. Rd2+ doesn't do this: the king is lured away from a piece that's defended otherwise (Nf2 by Rf1) and the d-file is already open. |
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Jun-03-21
 | | drollere: like <Brenin>, i went for R8d8, because i believe -- well, no matter what i believe. too much woodforce on the white side. also, late night before bed analyses, not so useful. still, the career of the R, off the reservation first at b4, then at b2 -- "please, capture me!" was fun and funny. usually, a sacrifice busts the pawn structure. here, it's unlocking protection of a key square. must remember that. |
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| Jun-03-21 | | awfulhangover: Am I the only who struggled a lot with this, almost gave up. Then: "Heureka!" Nice feeling, and how nice would it be to see this in a game. And see the pain in the opponents face ;-) |
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| Jun-03-21 | | mel gibson: <
Jun-03-21 Brenin: I missed 30 ... Rb4, and chose 30 ... R8d8, which seems enough to win despite the counterattack 31 Qxf7+, e.g. Kxf7 32 Nh1+ Ke6 33 Nxg3 Rd3 34 (or Rc3) Rf3 Rd2+ and 35 ... Rxb2, or possibly 32 ... Qf4 33 exf4 Rxe4+ and 34 ... Rxf4+.><Jun-03-21
Premium Chessgames Member drollere: like <Brenin>, i went for R8d8, because i believe -- well, no matter what i believe. too much woodforce on the white side. also, late night before bed analyses, not so useful. > Yes - I agree -
doubling the Rooks is a natural move -
it's the move I saw -
and I checked it with Stockfish 13 and it still wins. 30. .. Rfd8
( 31. Qxf7+ (♕b3xf7+ ♔g8xf7 ♘f2-h1+ ♔f7-e6 ♘h1xg3 ♖d4-d3 ♖f1-f3 ♖d3-d2+
♔e2-f1 ♖d2xb2 e4-e5 ♖b2-b5 ♘g3-e2 ♖b5xe5 ♘e2-d4+ ♔e6-e7 ♖c1-b1 ♖d8-d7
♖f3-f2 ♗g5-f6 ♖f2-b2 ♖e5xe3 ♘d4-c2 ♗f6xb2 ♘c2xe3 ♗b2-c3 ♘e3-c4 ♔e7-e6 h3-h4
♖d7-d4 ♖b1xb7 ♖d4xh4 ♘c4-e3 ♗c3xa5 g2-g3 ♖h4-e4 ♘e3-g2 g6-g5 ♖b7xh7 ♗a5-d2
♔f1-f2 ♖e4-e5 ♔f2-f3 a6-a5 ♖h7-a7 ♔e6-d6 ♘g2-f4 g5xf4 g3xf4 ♖e5-e3+ ♔f3-g4
c6-c5 ♖a7-a6+ ♔d6-d5 ♖a6-a7 c5-c4 ♖a7-d7+ ♔d5-c5 ♖d7-c7+ ♔c5-b4) -5.03/39
155)
score for White -5.03 depth 39 |
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| Jun-03-21 | | Brenin: <drollere>, <mel gibson>: it's the old story: see a good move, look for a better one. I should have realised that a move like 30 ... R8d8 was too sensible to be the best solution. Something with the flair of 30 ... Rb4 was required for a POTD. |
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Jun-03-21
 | | Jimfromprovidence: I looked at 30...Rb4 but also settled for 30...Rfd8 because I did not know how to proceed after 30...Rb4 31 Qc3 Rxb2+ 32 Ke1.
click for larger viewTwo kibitzers <agb2002> and <Refused> answered 32 Ke1 with 32...Rxf2. That works great. Greater still is 32...Be7!, below, with the threat of 33...Bb4. 
click for larger viewNever would I have found it without "help".
1) mate-in-12 (29 ply) 32...Be7 33.Rc2 Rxc2 34.Qxc2 Qxe3+ 35.Kd1 Rd8+ 36.Qd3 Rxd3+ 37.Nxd3 Qxd3+ 38.Ke1 Bh4+ 39.Rf2 Qc2 40.g3 Bxg3 41.e5 Qxf2+ 42.Kd1 Bf4 43.e6 Qd2# |
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Jun-03-21
| | HeMateMe: Helluva combo! |
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| Jun-03-21 | | nevski: The black bishop must be promoted to cardinal! |
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Jun-03-21
 | | Breunor: I found the first few moves quickly.
Idea - black can win if he plays Qxe3.
So idea 2, move the defending queen. So Rb4 does the job. Queen moves, then Rxb2 ch. |
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| Jun-03-21 | | mel gibson: <Jun-03-21 Brenin: <drollere>, <mel gibson>: it's the old story: see a good move, look for a better one. I should have realised that a move like 30 ... R8d8 was too sensible to be the best solution. Something with the flair of 30 ... Rb4 was required for a POTD.> Doubling Rooks is usually a good move.
The Rooks are worth 5 each = 10.
But when doubled they are worth 12. |
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Jun-03-21
| | Dionysius1: Unsatisfactory puzzle in my view.
After ♕xb4 ♕xe3+ 32. ♔d1 ♕xc1+ 33. ♔e2 ♕e3+ 34. ♔d1 ♖d8+ 35. ♔c2 ♖d2+ 36. ♔b1 I'm left thinking "Oh well, nice position for Black, but some way to go yet. He'll probably need another puzzle like move to bring this to a conclusive end" And what's the point of a puzzle without a conclusive end? Is it even a well formed puzzle? |
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| Jun-03-21 | | Agferna: Awesome game for Black. Incredibly frustrating for White: Ne3, Rd4, Rb4, Rb2, etc., and other equally annoying sub-variations that deny White a playable line. Possibly the best chance for White was to jettison the exchange with 23 Re3! Bf4 24 Qc3, with a pawn and strong center as compensation.
Cheers |
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Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 31...Rxb2+