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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jan-03-14
 | | Penguincw: Seems simple enough. Unfortunately, finding it wasn't that simple. I had thoughts of a queen sacrifice on f6, but after 30.Qxf6+ Rxf6 31.Rd8 Rf8, white is just lost. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: <ozmikey>: 30 ... Qg7 vs. Qf7 makes no difference, in that 31 Rd7 Nf7 doesn't work, because the f8 rook doesn't actually defend the f7 knight. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | mel gibson: A also thought incorrectly as 30. Rd7.
I tried it on the computer & it lost.
The computer picked correctly 30 Rd8 & won. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | King Sacrificer: <Cheapo by the Dozen: <ozmikey>: 30 ... Qg7 vs. Qf7 makes no difference, in that 31 Rd7 Nf7 doesn't work, because the f8 rook doesn't actually defend the f7 knight.> No difference? What about <30...Qg7 31. Rd7 Nxd7>? |
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| Jan-03-14 | | pforpakya: very nice educating puzzle ! |
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| Jan-03-14 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: <King Sacrificer> I sit corrected. That's indeed a difference! And I'm not immediately seeing a win after 32 Rxd7 Qe8 or Qg8. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | Amadori: <cocker: Black could have held out longer with 31 ... Rxd8. If White then plays 32 Rxf7, Black gets a draw with perpetual check.> Interesting. What about 32.Rxd8+ Kg7? (if ..Bf8 then QxQ NxQ RxB black loses a piece) 33.Re8 threatening 34.Re7.. the knight can't defend on c6 or g6! |
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| Jan-03-14 | | yadasampati: In my opinion, the real difficult move here is <31. R2d7> and not <30. Rd8>. I could easily see that <30. ... Rxd8> was not possible because of <31. Qxf6+> and in itself <30. Rd8> "feels" like the best move, intensifying the pressure maximally. But what after <30. ... Qf7>? It is not so easy to see that white can offer the d2-rook on d7. The pawn promotion that follows, is quite unexpected. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | M.Hassan: "Difficult"
White to play 30.?
White has a Rook and 2 pawns for a Bishop & a Knight.30.Rd8!
<if...Rxd8 31.Qxf6+ Kg7 32.Rxd8+ Qxd8 33.Qxd8> 30.........Qg7
31.R2d6 Qg8
33.Rxf8 Qxf8
34.Qxf6+ Qxf6
35.Rxf6 Bg5
White is stronger, but a win is far fetched.
Time to check
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30...Qf7 instead of g7in my line made all the difference. |
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Jan-03-14
 | | agb2002: White has a rook and two pawns for a bishop and a knight. Black threatens 30... Bxd2.
The black rook protects the f-pawn. This suggests 30.Rd8: A) 30... Rxd8 31.Qxf6+
A.1) 31... Kg8 32.Rxd8+ Qxd8 33.Qxd8+ + - [Q+3P vs B+N]. A.2) 31... Bg7 32.Rxd8+ Qxd8 33.Qxd8+ Bf8 34.Qxf8#.
A.3) 31... Qg7 32.Rxd8#.
B) 30... Bxd2 31.Qxf6+ and 32.Rxf8#.
C) 30... Qxd8 31.Rxd8 Rxd8 32.Qxf6+ Kg8 33.Qxd8+ as in A.1. D) 30... Qf7 31.R2d7
D.1) 31... Qxe6 32.fxe6
D.1.a) 32... Nxd7 33.e7 Kg8 34.Rxf8 B(N)xf8 35.e8=Q wins. D.1.b) 32... Kg8 33.e7 is similar to D.1.a.
D.1.c) 32... Ng6 33.Rxf8+ Bxf8 (33... Nxf8 34.e7) 34.c4 bxc3 35.bxc3 and White should win the endgame. D.2) 31... Nxd7 32.Qxf7 Rxd8 33.Qe7 Rc8 34.Qxd7 Rxc2 35.Qe8+ Kg7 36.Qe7+ Kg8 37.Qxf6 Bf4 38.g3 + - [Q+3P vs R+B], if 38... Bxg3 39.Qg5+ and 40.Qxg3. D.3) 31... Qg8 32.Rd6 Qxe6 (due to Rxf8 and Qxf6+) 33.fxe6 looks similar to D.1. E) 30... Qg7 31.R2d6 as in D.3. (31... Nf7 32.Rxf8+ Qxf8 33.Qxf6+). -----
Another option is 30.Rd7 but after 30... Nxd7 31.Rxd7 Qe5 White is in trouble (32.Qc6 Qe1+ 33.Kh2 Bf4+ and mate in two). -----
I'd play 30.Rd8. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | haydn20: I never had a chance on this one. Even the coup de grace 38 Rxf8! is beautiful. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | gotgat54: <agb2002> Your line (E) doesn't work.
30 ... Qg7 31 R2d6 Nf7 32 Rxf8+ Qxf8 33 Qxf6+ Bg7 and white loses his rook. I still haven't found a winning line for white after 30...Qg7. Nor has anyone else here, apparently. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | Skakalec: <gotgat54> I think you still keep the N on e5, but in fact it's on f7, so after Bg7, Qxf7 should win. |
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Jan-03-14
 | | Jimfromprovidence: I got 30 Rd8 Qf7 31.R2d7 Rxd8 32 Rxd8+ Kg7.
click for larger viewNothing from this point really stands out.
33 Ra8 attacks the a pawn and prevents the queen from counterattack because of the threat Qg8#. 33 b3 also looks ok.
Earlier, if black tries 30...Qg7, if 31 R2d6 Nf7 32 Rxf8+ Qxf8 follows, then 33 Rc6, below (with the threat of 34 Rc8 should win the f pawn). 
click for larger view |
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| Jan-03-14 | | gotgat54: <Skakalek> That makes no sense at all. After 30 ... Qg7 31 R2d6 Nf7 32 Rxf8+ Qxf8 33 Qxf6+ Bg7 34 Qxf7? we get 34...Qxf7! White's lost his queen! If now 35 Rd8+ then 35...Bf8, and everything is safe. Black is up a queen and the exchange. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | Amadori: <if black tries 30...Qg7, if 31 R2d6 Nf7 32 Rxf8+ Qxf8 follows, then 33 Rc6, below (with the threat of 34 Rc8 should win the f pawn)> 33...Nd8 34.Qxf6 Qxf6 34.Rxf6.., and it's down to 1R + a couple of passed pawns against the B and N. That's about what I got with a slightly different line starting from 30...Qg7 31.Qc8 Qg8(BxR 1-0)32.R2d6 Nf7 33.Rxf8 Qxf8 34.Qxf8 Bxf8 35.Rxf6 (or 33...Bxf8 34.Rxf6 leaving the queens on the board. Not sure if it's good enough for a win though. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | gotgat54: <Amadori> Probably good enough for one of Carlsen's inexorable and inevitable grinds towards 1-0. But by no means anything like the smart little brilliancy that was actually played. I'm pretty convinced that after 30...Qg7, white doesn't really have much. |
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Jan-03-14
 | | al wazir: <Amadori: 30...Qf7 is forced since 30...Bg7 can't defend against 31.Rxf8+ Bxf8 32.Qxf6.> 32...Qg7. Now what? |
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| Jan-03-14 | | PJs Studio: My program gave a winning ending for white if Black avoids 31...Qxe6. This may not be best play as it was quickly done, but White definitely winds up better.
From the diagramed position:
1. Rd8 Qf7 2. R2d7 Rxd8 3. Rxd8+ Kg7 4. Ra8 Bc1 5. b3 Bf4 6. Qxf7+ Nxf7 7. Rxa5 h5 8. Rb5 Bd2 9. Rb7 Kf8 10. Kg1 Nd6 11. Rd7 Bf4 12. Kf2 Nxf5 13. Ke2 Be5 14. Kd3 Bg3 15. c4 Ke8 16. Rh7 h4 17. Rb7 Be1 18. c5 Ne7 19. Kc4 Nf5 20. Kd5 Ne3+ 21. Ke6 Kd8 22. Kd6 Nf5+ 23. Kd5 Kc8 24. Rh7 Bc3 25. Kc6 Nd4+ 26. Kb6 Be1 27. Rf7 Bf2 28. Rxf6 Bg3 29. c6 Bc7+ 30. Kc5 Bd8 31. Rf7 Nc2 32. Kd6 Nd4 33. Rf8 Nb5+ 34. Kc5 Nc3 35. Kxb4 Nxa2+ 36. Kc5 Nc3 37. b4 Kc7 38. Rf7+ Kb8 39. b5 Ne4+ 40. Kd5 Nc3+ 41. Kc4 Ne4 42. Rf8 Kc7 43. b6+ Kxb6 44. Rxd8 Kxc6 45. Rd4 Ng3 46. Kd3 Nf5 47. Rf4 Ng3 48. Rxh4 Kd7 49. Rg4 Nh5 50. Kd4 Nf6 51. Rg7+ Kd6 |
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| Jan-03-14 | | nariga: What is wrong with 32...Nc6? |
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| Jan-03-14 | | RandomVisitor: <hcgflynn>After 17...exf4 18.Qd5+ Kh8 19.Nxd6 white has threats with Nf7+ and a windmill... play might then continue:
click for larger view Rybka 4.1 x64:
<[+0.00] d=19 19...Bd7> 20.Rad1 Nc6 21.Nf7+ Rxf7 22.Qxf7 Ne5 23.Qe7 Rg8 24.Bf7 Rf8 25.Bh5 Rg8 26.Bf7 Rf8 27.Bh5 Rg8 28.Bf7 Rf8 29.Bh5 Rg8 30.Bf7 Rf8 31.Bh5 Rg8 32.Bf7 Rf8 33.Bh5 Rg8 34.Bf7 Rf8 [+0.09] d=19 19...Nd7 20.Nf7+ Rxf7 21.Bxf7 Qc7 22.Rad1 Bf8 23.Qf5 Bg7 24.Qxf4 Ne5 25.Bd5 Rb8 26.Rd3 Qb6 27.Rb3 a5 28.a3 Ba6 29.Ra1 Bh6 30.Qf5 Bg5 31.axb4 |
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| Jan-03-14 | | Amadori: <32...Qg7. Now what?> Now get out of the way and push the pawn. Pretty much the same result as the 30...Qg7 line. As <gotgat54> already noted, the game line is flawed. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | parisattack: The Glory Days for the Najdorf. No English Attack for these guys. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | shivasuri4: <nariga: What is wrong with 32...Nc6?>
Nothing at all. In fact, that's the best continuation for Black. White still retains an edge, but the win will take time. |
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| Jan-03-14 | | RandomVisitor: <nariga>32...Nc6 33.Rxf8+ Bxf8 
click for larger viewRybka 4.1 x64:
<[+3.69] d=23 34.Rc7> Ne7 35.Rc5 Kg8 36.Rxa5 Kg7 37.Ra7 f5 38.Rb7 Kf6 39.Rxb4 Kxe6 40.a4 Nc6 41.Rb5 Nd4 42.Rb6+ Kd7 43.Rb7+ Kc6 44.Rxh7 Nxc2 45.Rf7 Bc5 46.Rf6+ Bd6 47.a5 Nd4 48.a6 Nb5 49.h4 [+3.11] d=23 34.g4 Ne7 35.Kg2 Kg8 36.Kg3 f5 37.gxf5 Nxf5+ 38.Kf4 Ne7 39.Ke4 Kg7 40.Rd1 a4 41.Rf1 Nc6 42.Rf7+ Kg8 43.Rc7 Ne7 44.Ra7 Kg7 45.Rxa4 Ng6 46.h4 Kf6 47.h5 Nh4 |
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Kibitzing
sac: 18.exf5