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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Aug-23-13 | | Stormbringer: Got the attacking idea, missed he best defence. Hmm... maybe that's where I should put more effort |
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| Aug-23-13 | | patzer2: I picked 16. Ng4! for today's Friday solution.
Multiple threats, such as 16...Qxg4 17. Qd4 or 16...Qxe4 17. Nh6#, appeared to me to easily force Black to give up decisive material to avoid a quick mate. However, I didn't see the complexities in the line 16. Ng4!! Qxg4 17. Qd4 Bc5! 18. Qxc5 Nc6 19. Rae1! Qf5 20. Bd5! Be6 21. Qc3!  . Without finding 19. Rae1!, 20. Bd5! and 21. Qc3! in this line (i.e. 16...Qxg4 17. Qd4), White's decisive advantage could, with strong counter play, quickly fade and disappear. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | Nostrils: What's wrong with Nxf7 Rxf7 Qe8+ Bf8 Qe5 ? |
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| Aug-23-13 | | Revenant: Stockfish says white missed the crushing 15. f5! (+9.13 at depth 30), e.g. 15... gxf5 16. Rxf5 Qxf5 17. Ng4 with the familiar fork/mate idea. Count on computers to turn the classics upside-down. In the game, after 15. Bc4, black could have held on with 15... Qf6 16. Nd3 Bf5 (-1.25 at depth 35). It looks scary, but if 17. Qf3, black has 17... Bc5+ 18. Kh1 Bd4 19. Bxd4 Qxd4 solving the problem on the diagonal. If instead 17. Qe3, black goes 17... Nxc2 18. Qf2 Bc5 19. Qxc5 Qb6 with two healthy pawns for the lost piece. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | Nick46: <al wazir: /Schwarz/ is German for "black" and /bialy/ is Polish -- or possibly some other Slavic language -- for "white.">
True. Another meaning of bialy is 'chaste'. Wolfy Bialas chased Schwarz all over the board until he ran him to ground. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | stacase: Once you see that White's Knight can threaten mate, it falls apart. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | Bartimaeus: <NewLine> 19. Rae1! is indeed a terrific move. It nullifies the Be6 defense as now black can't play f6 without losing the bishop. Thanks for running the engines on this one and sharing the results. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | morfishine: I figured <16.Ng4> and if 16...Qxe4 17.Nh6# <Bartimaeus> Nice thinking only improved with 19.Rae1 ***** |
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| Aug-23-13 | | MarkFinan: Why doesn't black talk the pawn with check after 12.b4. ?? |
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| Aug-23-13 | | bubuli55: 16. Ng4 is the only move with threat of mate on h6. And 16... Qxg4 17. Qd4 mate follows. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | bubuli55: I guess Black may continue like 16. Ng4 Qxg4 17. Qd4 Bc5 18. Qxc5 Nc6 19. Bxf7+ Rxf7 20. Qc3  |
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| Aug-23-13 | | Bartimaeus: <morfishine> Thanks man. Have a good weekend. <MarkFinan> 12..Bxb4? 13. Qxb4 <bubuli55> In your second post, 19...Kxf7 seems better than Rxf7. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | Jakob52: I know Ng5 is probably best. But what about: 16 Nxf7? It could go like this: ...Rxf7 17. Qd4, which is a mate threat, so black has to put the bishop or the queen in between (Be5 or Qe5). If Be5 then pawn takes the bishop and the rook will threaten the queen. It all seems like black will loose material or end up mate at g7 or h8 with the white queen. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | MarkFinan: <Bartimaeus> Lol.. Thanks, i completely missed the Queen!! |
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| Aug-23-13 | | mistreaver: Friday. WHite to play. 16.? Difficult.
I would guess that the following is the dagger blow here:
16 Nxf7!
A)
16... Qxe4??
17 Nh6 mate
B)
16... Qxf7
17 Bxf7
That only leaves
C)
16... Rxf7
17 Qe8+ Bf8
And i reckon that white is winning here because black is just tied up.
Time to check and see.ž
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Hmm after the forced sequence
18 Qe5 Qxe5
19 fxe5 Bf5
20 Bxf7+ Kxf7
21 g4 Ke6
22 gxf5+ gxf5
my computer gives only slight advantage to white. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | JustAFish: May the Schwarz be with you. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | patzer2: <Bubuli55><I guess Black may continue like 16. Ng4 Qxg4 17. Qd4 Bc5 18. Qxc5 Nc6 19. Bxf7+...> <Bartimaeus> <...<bubuli55> In your second post, 19...Kxf7 seems better than Rxf7> After 16. Ng4 Qxg4 17. Qd4 Bc5 18. Qxc5 Nc6, the strongest winning move is 19. Rae1! . However, Fritz 12 indicates White is also winning after 19. Bxf7+ Kxf7! (19...Rxf7 20. Qc3! forces mate) 20. Qc3! Be6! 21. f5! gxf5 22. Qf6+ Kg8 23. Qxe6+ Rf7 24. Rae1 Rd8 25. Re3 Rd6 26. Qb3 Nd4 27. Re8+ Kg7 28. Qe3 Rff6 29. h3 Qg6 30. Re7+ Kf8 31. Bxd4 Rxd4 32. Rxc7 Re4 33. Qxa7 . The follow-up to 19. Rae1! is not simple, but it leads to a clearly decisive result much quicker (and perhaps easier) than the 19. Bxf7+ line. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | kevin86: Wow! Two queen sacs! Nxf6 and Ng4! |
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Aug-23-13
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| Aug-23-13 | | MiCrooks: I thought I was vindicated when engine didn't think that Ng4 Qxg4 Qd4 Bc5 Qxc5 Nc6 was much better for White. Certainly not a puzzle winning position. But some horizon effect along with perhaps some poor selective pruning was involved. I let it sit to where it should have easily seen how good Rae1 was, but it still liked Bd5 better which is probably no better than equal. Rae1 wins a piece though it is not immediately evident and leads to an easy win. The alternative Bxf7 probably wins, but it is easy to go astray and it does not lead to the same sort of easy win that Rae1 does. You win the Bishop back and recover your pawn in a much better position, but the win is a long ways away. After Rae1 all of White's pieces are in play and Black has nothing. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | patzer2: <Revenant> Thanks for the analysis of 15. Bc5 and the missed win 15. f5!! . I like your 15. Bc5 Qf6!? Nd3 Bf5 as a good try (with two solid pawns for the piece) in a line preferred by the computers. However, 15. Bc5 Qe7 = to  also seems to keep Black comfortably in the game. |
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Aug-23-13
 | | agb2002: White is one pawn down.
Black threatens 16... Qxe4 and 16... Nxc2.
The open diagonal a1-h8 suggests 16.Nxf7 or 16.Ng4, threatening mate in one or winning the queen in both cases, and 16.Qd4. In the case of 16.Nxf7:
A) 16... Qc5+ 17.Bd4 Qxc4 18.Nh6#.
B) 16... Rxf7 17.Qe8+ (17.Qd4 Bc5) 17... Bf8 18.Rad1 Nc6 19.Ba3 Be6 20.Qxa8 Bxc4 looks better for Black. -----
In the case of 16.Ng4:
A) 16... Qxg4 17.Qd4 Bc5 18.Qxc5 Nc6 (else Qd4 or Qe5 and mate soon) 19.f5 A.1) 19... Bxf5 20.Bd5 (threatens 21.Qc3 and 21.Bxc6 bxc6 22.Qxc6 Rb8 23.Qf6) A.1.a) 20... Be6 21.Qc3 f6 22.h3 Qe2 23.Rae1 wins material. A.1.b) 20... Rfd8 21.Qc3 Kf8 22.Rae1 Be6 23.Rxe6 wins. A.1.c) 20... Rfe8 21.Qc3 Kf8 22.Qf6 Nd8 (22... Re7 23.Qh8#; 22... Be6 23.Qxf7+ Bxf7 24.Rxf7+ Kg8 25.Rf5+ Re6 26.Bxe6#) 23.Qg7+ Ke7 24.Rad1 with the threat 25.Bf6+ Kd7 26.Be2+ or 26.Bxf7+ looks winning. A.2) 19... gxf5 20.Bd5
A.2.a) 20... Be6 21.Qc3 f6 22.Bxe6+, etc.
A.2.b) 20... Rd8 21.Qc3 Kf8 22.Rae1 looks similar to A.1.b. A.2.c) 20... Re8 21.Qc3 also looks similar to A.1.c.
B) 16... Qc5+ 17.Bd4 Bxg4 (18... Qxc4 19.Nh6#) 18.Bxc5, etc. C) 16... Qh5 17.Nf6+, etc.
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In the case of 16.Qd4 Qf6 (16... Nxc2 17.Qc3 Be6 18.Ng4 wins) 17.Qc3 looks unclear. -----
I think I'd play 16.Ng4. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | poachedeggs: Black resigns after BxP...
It seems ...KxB is blacks next move...
What is white's best continuation. |
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| Aug-23-13 | | James D Flynn: Black is a pwn up but thecombined pwer of the White B on the long diagonal and the B on c4 preventing f6 closing that diagonal will rapidly lead yo a win:
16. Ng4(threat Nh6# and if h6, pr, h5, or Rd8 creaing an escape Square for the K Nh6+ forks K and Q) Qxg4 17.Qd4 and Black can only avert an immediate mate at g7 or h8 by interposing his B but after Be5 18.Qxe5 mate on the long diagonal is inevitable, he can now only postpone for a Move by a pointless Q check Qxg2+ 18.Kxg2 Bh3+ 19.Kxh3 aand mate next move. |
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| Aug-24-13 | | Dr. Funkenstein: White to play down a pawn but with the two bishops on diagonals leading to black’s king. The pin on f7 leads me to want to try to get the queen d4 to threaten g7 and h8 mate 16. Ng4 (threatening mate or a queen/king fork on h6) Qxg4 17. Qd4 Be5 18. Qxe5 and I don’t see how black can defend…. 16. Ng4 Qc5+ 17. Bd4 still threatens mate on h6
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Didn’t think of giving up the queen for two minors and a good file for the rook to attack on… Bxf7+ is a great simplifying move picking up the c5 bishop I certainly missed the proper defense with Bc5 that leads white to have to find some very tricky moves as others have pointed out. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 16.Ng4