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Josef I Friedman vs Boris Gulko
21st World Open (1993), Philadelphia, PA USA, rd 1
French Defense: Winawer. Bogoljubow Variation (C17)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-03-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Teyss: An extra note on why 16... Qd3 is a good move.

After 15... Qxc2 Black is a Knight ahead. Not sure why White plays 16. g4, maybe intended to continue the attack with 17. f4 and 18. f5_? Granted, Black would still win after a move like e.g. 16... Qg6, especially considering Gulko is playing.

But 16... Qd3! threatens 17... Qe2# which White has only three ways to parry:

- 17. 0-0-0?? Qxa3+ 18. Kb1 (or Kc2) Bd3#

- 17. Kd1? Qe2+ 18. Kc1 Rc8+ 19. Kb1 Qd3+ 20. Ka2 (or Kb2) Qc2# or 19. Kb2 Qxd2+ 20. Kb3 (or Kb1) Qc2#

- 17. Qh7+ (to deflect the BQ) Qxh7 18. Nxh7 Kxh7 and now Black is two pieces up so White rightfully resigned.

Jul-10-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: Beware of Gradmasters bearing gifts.
Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Teyss: "There's no such thing as a free launch" (CG deleted some of my pun submissions without explanation so I'll kibitz them for memory's sake.)

<Phony Benoni> Timeo Magistros Magnos et dona ferentes.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: Some people won't just take no for an answer.
Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Weird. My last few submitted are deleted. One I submitted September 1st is still there, so not too many went.
Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Teyss: <MissScarlett> I don't mind the no but the deletions on my private user space, especially without any explanation.

I submitted approx. 15 puns, there are 6 left (disregarding the 3 from yesterday), that's more than a 50% drop despite the fact I checked they were not previously selected. Strange.

If they have to stay on my page without being selected, fine. At least it provides a list of some games I liked with a funny thought they prompted.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Teyss: <OhioChessFan> Same here, some old ones are left, some new and old gone. Without explanation it could be King's (or Queen's) will to delete or not.
Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <I don't mind the no but the deletions on my private user space, especially without any explanation.>

Until I just checked, I never realised that there was a personal pun submission list page. Is that a feature for premium members only? Is it new?

Needless to say, I have no access to that information. I only have a general list of submissions, several thousand long. Given an entire day, I could probably cull a few thousand of those, but at present I just zap a few as the mood takes me. These deletions are evidently replicated on your individual page.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Teyss: <MissScarlett: I never realised that there was a personal pun submission list page.> It is "Puns submitted by [User]". Nothing is really personal on a website but it's confusing to have items deleted without warning.

I understand what's happening now: your selection apparently impacts the users' submission page. This process is wrong, not your fault, it's the site's.
It's not because you decide to pass on a pun at a point in time that it should permanently be removed from submissions: they could be reviewed at a later stage. Also it's confusing for the user who could forget what he/she submitted and could hence resubmit, generating loss of time on both sides.

Now, the rules do say "8. Entries are subject to deletion by Chessgames administrators (...) [if] c. The game has already been used as the "Game of the Day" since April 27th, 2004." But that is:

1. A stupid rule because 2004 is a long time ago and members would enjoy seeing again a good game after a while. People forget, evolve, there are new comments and analyses, etc. Not to mention the great pleasure of savouring a hilarious play on words as a pre-meal delicacy.

2. Not even respected because there are many instances of puns accepted on previous GOTDs, sometimes recent. Oll vs J M Hodgson, 1993 was even "punned" thrice.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: Originaly, puns were devised by Central Control, with a few individual suggestions by members. It appears to be 20009 when the Pun Voting Booth and the individual Pun Submission Lists were introduced, first as part of a contest, then as a permanent feature.

chessgames.com chessforum (kibitz #8209)

Further searching could provide more detail.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <It's not because you decide to pass on a pun at a point in time that it should permanently be removed from submissions: they could be reviewed at a later stage. Also it's confusing for the user who could forget what he/she submitted and could hence resubmit, generating loss of time on both sides.>

Dredging through 7000 puns, 90% of them dreck, is a waste of time, too. Chess is a ruthless business, and <MissScarlett> is nothing if not ruthless.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: < It appears to be 20009 when the Pun Voting Booth and the individual Pun Submission Lists were introduced...>

Ah, that's why I don't remember; I wasn't here then.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <MissScarlett: I never realised that there was a personal pun submission list page.>

And this incompetent is in charge? Unbelievable.

Oct-23-21  Z truth 000000001: <incompetent>?!?

Even I would have thought <OCF> would at least concede h/im/er <semi-competent>.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Teyss: <MissScarlett: (...) 90% of them dreck> If you mean this, are the only one to select and your selection permanently impacts submission pages, we have an issue at hand. Again nothing personal, it's a process weakness, I appreciate your efforts.

I went through the voting booth and thought about half of puns were at least decent. Now looking for a decent+ pun together with a decent+ game is different, probably the ratio drops to 20-30%.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <And this incompetent is in charge? Unbelievable.>

Care to explain how such ignorance would materially affect my judgement to select puns/games?

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <<MissScarlett: (...) 90% of them dreck> If you mean this, are the only one to select and your selection permanently impacts submission pages, we have an issue at hand.>

The issue at hand is the dearth of quality puns/games. My only advice to those displeased at the non-appearance of their efforts is i)patience; ii)do better.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: Have the site engineers build in a yes/no column for pun submissions. Then <MissScarlett> will know what he/she's looked at and either accepted or rejected. Then, no one's submissions need be deleted.

And for gods sake, <MS>, get your act together!

That said, IMO the game of the day submissions (the games, not the titles, which I consider secondary) have been of higher quality lately.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: Having gone through over 9000 of those 7000 submissions in the Pun Voting Booth, I've probably given the lowest grade (1) to at least 90% of the puns. Granted, my standards are probably too strict . I will often mark down an acceptable pun because it has no relation to the game. And I will sometimes adjust the grade for a pun based on the quality of the game.

This may not be the best system, but I think we can all agree that we can't all agree on what is. We are chess payers.

There is something I would ask. On the "Master List" of which <MissScarlett> speaks, are the grades from the Pun Voting Booth given? If they aren't available (or are not taken into account), why are we wasting our time voting?

I would like to say that the quality of both puns and games has been better over the last month. This is not just my opinion, but that of ibitzers on the GOTD pages. There are far more positive comments than negative.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <On the "Master List" of which <MissScarlett> speaks, are the grades from the Pun Voting Booth given? If they aren't available (or are not taken into account), why are we wasting our time voting?>

They are available, but for all the attention I pay to them, they may as well not be. Given that it's rare to find a submission with more than 2-3 votes, I don't think I can be reasonably chastised for such negligence.

Oct-23-21  Z truth 000000001: <AnnieK>, <SRV>, and now <MIssy>:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t54...

Consider it necessary fodder for the artistic muses...

.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <Given that it's rare to find a submission with more than 2-3 votes>

Having skimmed the list, this might be a shade hyperbolic. Rare would be half a dozen. A dozen or more is positively stratospheric.

Oct-23-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Teyss: <MissScarlett: They are available, but for all the attention I pay to them, they may as well not be. Given that it's rare to find a submission with more than 2-3 votes, I don't think I can be reasonably chastised for such negligence.>

Two simple questions then:
1. Same as <Phony Benoni: If they (...) are not taken into account, why are we wasting our time voting?>
2. Aren't 1 + 2 to 3 (or more) opinions better than one?

Oct-24-21  Granny O Doul: <An extra note on why 16... Qd3 is a good move> The only uncertainty I'm left with is whether I feel more like Archimedes in the bathtub, or Newton after the apple.
Oct-24-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: what was Archimedes doing in the bathtub? moving something with his lever?
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