|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Aug-28-11 | | sevenseaman: Good to hear your side of the argument.
< I kept asking myself "Where is the insane move?". IMHO <49...Rxg2+>
satisfies the "insanity" criteria as black exchanges his rook, capturing
a <mere pawn> thats defended 3 times> Its misleading to think g2 is defended 3 times. With the g8 R backing
up its colleague, in practical terms (you can hardly count the White Q
and K), g2 is defended only once, i.e. by the B on f3. Does this angle change your thinking to some extent? Not too much, eh?
Ok.
<49...Rxg2 50. Bxg2 f3> Again the moment you use the f3 B another attacker is born, the f4 P
advancing to f3. Again same criteria as the one that prevailed before the
Black move 49, comes into our reckoning. Now if White chooses to use 51.
Bxf3 Qf4+, my 'side line' (I later saw it is the same as found by <jfp>)
is born. However here I presumed White to play <51. Re4> to thwart Qxh3+. But let us go with <51. Bxf3> < 51...Qf4+ 52. Kh1 Qxf3+ 53. Kh2 Qxc3> And Black has enough for a win. If White Q moves at all it leaves holes
(h3)you can see from miles. If 54. Rd3 Qc5 aiming on(g2) and White Q dare
not move.
<You saw no second or third defender could appear. And you know why>. So <morf>, what dya say? I'll take your word, of course. |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | abuzic: 49...Rxg2+ 50.Bxg2 f3
51.Bxf3 offers the best defence, but does not save white: 52...Qf4+ (51...Bg5 gives white counterplay: 52.Bg2 Bf4+ 53.Kh1 Rxg2 54.Qxg2 Bxh3 55.Qa8+) 52.Kh1 Qxf3+ 53.Kh2 Bg5 (better than Qxc3 or Bh4 which also win) 54.Ne2 Bf4+ 55.Nxf4 Qxf4+ 56.Kh1 Qf3+ 57.Kh2 Bc8 white is up the exchange but his king's position is weak.
Some cont line variations:
58.Rd3 Qf4+ 59.Rg3 h4 (59.Kh1? Bb7+ and mate is inevitable) 60.Qe1 hxg3+ 61.fxg3 Qh6.
58.Rxd6 Qf4+ 59.Kh1 Bb7+ 60.f3 Bxf3+ 61.Qg2 Bxg2+ (61.Qxf3 Qxf3+ 62.Kh2 Qg2#) 62.Kg1 Be4+ 63.Rg6 Rxg6#. 51.? other defences make black's position worse:
51.Re4 fxg2 52.Rxh4 gxf1N+! (52.gxf1Q Rxh5+ 53.Kg7 54.Rxf1 saves white a R) 53.Rxf1 Bxh4. 51.Rd3 Qf4+ 52.Kg1 Rxg2+ 53.Qxg2 fxg2
51.Re3 Rxg2+ 52.Qxg2 fxg2 53.Kxg2 Bg5 54.Rg3 Bf4 55.Rgd3 e4 56.Nxe4 d5 57.Nc3 Bxh3+ 58.Rg3 Bxg3 59.fxg3 h4. |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | RandomVisitor: After 39.Qe4
click for larger view black has 39...Bxf2! 
if 40.Rxf2 there is the simple fork 40...Ng3+ |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | dufferps: I guess 49 ... Rxg2+ was a good move with 50. ... f3 to follow. But I don' understand Xie Jun's response (51. Re4 instead of 51. Bxf3.) Others have noted that capturing the threatening pawn does not actually save the game for white, but it certainly takes it to a level where a player of my skill can't find a way to force a win. |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | morfishine: <sevenseaman> You are right: The king can't recapture on <g2> [unless he's the last one to do it]. I'm with you. Where's the insanity? I found myself looking for the 'insanity' instead of looking for the best move/line. I even spent some time on the anti-positional move <49...Rc8> hitting the sausage hanging out on <c3> and eyeing <c2>. But thats all moot. Do you give yourself a time-limit for the Sunday Puzzle? I was limiting myself to 20-minutes then increased to 30-minutes recently, but think I should allow a full hour. Too often (on Sundays especially) I get onto the right track, then time's up. I wonder if and what criteria you <and other solvers> use. BTW: Thanks for the 4 puzzles. I had worked through them. I didn't get #4 right away. Thanks! Good going today! :) Morf |
|
Aug-28-11
 | | agb2002: Black has the bishop pair for a bishop and a knight. White threatens the pawn on a6.
Five pieces (and one or two pawns) against two pieces plus the king (and three pawns) should win. The first move that comes to mind is 49... Rxg2+: A) 50.Kh1 Qxh3#.
B) 50.Qxg2 Rxg2+ 51.Bxg2 (51.Kxg2 Qxh3+ 52.Kg1 Qxf3 - + [Q+2B+2P vs 2R+N]) 51... f3 B.1) 52.Bxf3 Qxh3+ 53.Kg1 Qxf3 - + [Q+2B+1P vs 2R+N]. B.2) 52.Bh1 Qxf2+ 53.Bg2 Qxg2#.
B.3) 52.Bf1 Qxf2+ 53.Kh1 Bxh3
B.3.a) 54.Bxh3 Qg3 55.Bf1 Qh4+ 56.Kg1 (56.Bh3 Qxh3+ 57.Kg1 Qg2#) 56... f2+ wins. B.3.b) 54.Ne4 Bg2+ 55.Kh2 (55.Bxg2 Qxg2#) 55... Qh4+ 56.Kg1 Qh1#. B.3.c) 54.Re4 Bg2+ 55.Kh2 Bxf1+ 56.Kh1 Qg2#.
B.4) 52.Re4 Qxf2 53.Rg1 fxg2 54.Rxg2 Qf5 - + [Q+2B+P vs 2R+N]. C) 50.Bxg2 f3
C.1) 50.Bh1 Qf4#.
C.2) 50.Bxf3 Qf4+ 51.Kh1 Qxf3+ 52.Kh2 Qxc3 - + [2B vs R]. C.3) 50.Re4 fxg2 51.Rxh4 gxf1=N+ 52.Rxf1 Bxh4 - + [2B vs R]. I have considered other moves like 49... Bxh3 and 49... Rg3 but they seem to be much weaker. |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | DrMAL: This time in (less than) 15 minutes I did see all the way through to what was played and then 52.Rxh4 gxf1N+! (knight check to prevent 53.Rxh5+) 53.Rxf1 Bxh4 for black to emerge a piece ahead. Apparently, white played 52.Qd3? for mate in 3. Beautiful combination by black! |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | sevenseaman: <morfishine> Thanks. I was indeed hoping to convince you. It was a difficult puzzle but of a very flowing logic, solvable in 10 or so minutes. I found it easier than <Maia>'s puzzle of Saturday. How I work on my daily puzzle is posted on your forum. |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | coconut: <ColeTrane>, Stockfish does just fine in this position. It just correctly notes that White's defense doesn't work, and tries moves which are better at delaying the inevitable. (The score of about -4 it gives from the puzzle position means it "thinks" white is dead lost anyway. You'll always see engines do funny things when they're defending dead lost positions, since from their perspective a silly and futile move which delays mate is fantastic.) |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | LIFE Master AJ: 49...Rxg2+!; is like the only real candidate move ... does anyone else feel this way? 50...f3! IS a nice clearance move, the main threat is ...Bg5-f4+. |
|
Aug-28-11
 | | scormus: damn! I saw 49 ... Rxg2 50 Bxg2 f3 right off and rejected it (because of 51 Bxf3). In fact looking so hard at the WK in bottom r h part of the board I overlooked that 52 ... Qxf3+ would pick up the Nc3. Not even all that insane really :( |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | David2009: Xie Jun vs A Galliamova, 1990 Black 49...? Insane I spent a long time trying to make 49...Rg3 work, but 50.fxg3! seems to win for White. Instead try 49...Rxg2+ expecting 50.Bxg2 f3 51.Re4 Now 51...Rxg2+ 52.Qxg2 fxg2 53.Rxh4 Bxh4 54.Rxd6 Bxh3 55.Rh6+ Kg7 56.Rxh5 Bxf2 57.Ne2 Bg4 58.Rg5+
and White has the last laugh (1-0). Instead 51...fxg2 52.Rxh4 gxf1=N+ 53.Rxf1 Bxh4 leaves Black a piece up. Time to check (it is getting very
late):
====
I got enough of it. Here's the puzzle position
click for larger view
colours reversed
click for larger view
with Crafty Eng Game Trainer link to play the position interactively colours-reversed: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t.... The EGT plays the colours-reversed equivalent of the solid 49...Rxg2+ 50.Bxg2 f3 51.Bxf3 Qf4+ 52.Kh1 Qxf3+ 53.Kh2 Qxc3 54.Re3 and Black (i.e.e White colours-reversed) will have work to do to convert the advantage of BB vs R into a win. Enjoy testing out the colours-reversed variations! |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | Patriot: <<LIFE Master AJ>: 49...Rxg2+!; is like the only real candidate move ... does anyone else feel this way?> I missed the key, 50...f3, so 49...Rxg2+ looked not just insane but stupid. I limited myself to 10 minutes and felt hurried to find something else when really it would've helped to look at each possibility at 3-ply. It's not too much to ask for with 10 minutes. I'm pretty confident that if I had done that methodically I would have seen 50...f3 and lights would start flashing. I settled with 49...Bg4. |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | abuzic: <abuzic: 49...Rxg2+ 50.Bxg2 f3
..........
51.Re4 fxg2 52.Rxh4 gxf1N+! (52.gxf1Q Rxh5+ 53.Kg7 54.Rxf1 saves white a R) 53.Rxf1 Bxh4.> This line should be corrected:
51.Re4 fxg2 52.Rxh4 gxf1N+! (52...gxf1Q 53.Rxh5+ Kg7 54.Rxf1 saves white a R) 53.Rxf1 Bxh4. |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | Elo: Impressive of Galliamova to see all of this over-the-board (without knowing that there was an 'insane' move to be played). Perhaps it has something to do with her having once been married to Ivanchuk. |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | chessgolfer: I have to agree with <Jimfromprovidence> and the other folks regarding White's 51:Re4 as opposed to Bxf3. I'm not 100% sure white can't slip out of this threat and possibly draw. I worked through this a number of times and when seeing the solution with 51:Re4 I was rather baffled. Guess I need to run it through Fritz to find the error of my ways. 51: Bxf3 seems to lead to very interesting play. |
|
Aug-28-11
 | | Sneaky: Excellent puzzle. I wanted ...Rxg2 so badly to work but I didn't see the ...f3 follow-up, which is to say, I didn't see the solution at all. <Perhaps it has something to do with her having once been married to Ivanchuk.> Maybe the reason why Chuky is such a wizard is because he was once married to Alisa ;-) |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | sshhhh: <agb2002> thanks for analysing 50. Qxg2 - the only person to mention it, I think, so far. I looked at 49...Rxg2 but I couldn't get anywhere if the queen recaptured. I think this is where a lot of the insanity lies |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | BOSTER: Some lines in this combo like 52.Rxh4 gxf1=N+, or line in the game loks very attractive , but a little bit "childish".
After correct defense we have the position with 2 black bishops vs white rook.
After combo white can play Re3 and then take the "c" file, and because black king is opened and a6 and h5 need protection I don't think this is easy winning position. |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | ProjectR: Well i thought Bxh3 ?? got the ball rolling,and into a winning endgame for black(wrong) but everyone else thinks Rg2+ ! And i dont understand why people use engines to solve these puzzles,a puzzle is surely exercise for the brain not the computer |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | M.Hassan: "Insane" Black to play 49....?
Black has a Bishop for a Knight-equal
I spent quite a time on this puzzle and the only feasible line that I saw is this:49..............Rxg2
50.Bxg2 f3
51.Bxf3 Qf4+
52.Kh1 Qxf3+
53.Kh2 Qxc3
54.Rd3 Qb4
55.Qe2 Qh4
click for larger view
I think Black has a slight edge in this position |
|
| Aug-28-11 | | sevenseaman: <H. Hassan> <I spent quite a time on this puzzle and the only feasible line that I saw is this: 49..............Rxg2
50.Bxg2 f3
51.Bxf3 Qf4+
52.Kh1 Qxf3+
53.Kh2 Qxc3
54.Rd3 Qb4
55.Qe2 Qh4 >
I endorse your thoughts. Having seen all the pros and cons of the position, I think this should be the limit of Black's ambition. I agree with your delineation of the denouement up to move 54. Rd3. Here my move for Black would be <54...Qc6>, tying down the white Q on a/c of Qg2 mate threat. I expect Black to prevail. |
|
| Aug-29-11 | | patzer2: Galliamova's 49...Rxg2!! treats us to a Sunday puzzle solution with a pleasing combination of several tactical themes. Decoy, deflection, a couple of double attack threats, a clever under promotion as an in-between move threat and a final decisive pawn promotion to finish off with a mate-in-three combine to make this an entertaining and instructive finish to this game. Visualizing the impact of the combined, decoy, deflection and clearance move 50...f3! is the key to visualizing the followup to 49...Rxg2!! |
|
| Aug-29-11 | | rilkefan: Spent all my time on ...Rg3. |
|
| Aug-29-11 | | whiteshark: Keep looking around. There's always something you've missed. |
|
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 49...Rxg2+