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Salomon Flohr vs Dmitry Osipovich Rovner
URS-ch sf (1950), Tartu (Estonia), rd 8
Dutch Defense: Classical. Ilyin-Zhenevsky Variation General (A97)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-17-05  erimiro1: <SamuelS> Right. moving directly 12. Ne5, gives white nothing. Maybe it's the time for trying to break black structure by 12. e4, although he has to calculate it very carefully, because the opening of the f file can be dangerous for him (sorry, I don't use Fritz or Chessmaster and I analyze the positions by the good old way, and don't have exact answers).Anyway, at least black has some counter chances.
Nov-17-05  mymt: <TTLump> I think 32.Ng6+ is needed for the mate because it stops Ke7-d8 & the blocking ...Re8 eg.32.Qh8+ Ke7 33.Qxg7+ Kd8 34.Rh8+ Re8 After 32.Ng6+ Kf7[...Ke8 33.Qg8#]33.Qxg7+ Ke8 34.Qg8#[or f8# or 34.Rh8#]
Nov-17-05  SamuelS: <mymt>, yes Ng6+ is needed, but also 32. Qh8+ Ke7 33. Ng6+ leads to checkmate (33...Kf7 34. Qxg7 Ke8 35. Rh8#) and that is what <TTLump> meant, I think.
Nov-17-05  zb2cr: Count me among the 32. Qh8+ crowd. I saw it led to mate in 4 at most.

Of course 32. Ng6+ is quicker by one move. 32. ... Ke8; 33. Qg8# is out, so 32. ... Kf7; 33. Qxg7+, Ke8; and either 34. Qf8# or 34. Rh8#.

Nov-17-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <Stevens: <chessgames> any feedback on my idea to include a "Play this position with Little Chess Partner" function with the daily puzzles? Is it possible?>

I've suggested this to chessgames.com also. The difficulty (they informed me) is coming up with the FEN string. The Java viewer doesn't provide it, so the chessgames server needs to generate it from the PGN code, which could put a heavy load on the servers if lots of people use that feature. (An alternative was to store FEN strings in the game database, but that creates space consumption problems.)

It would be a cool feature. You know, you can play any position you want with Little Chess Partner if you are willing to type in the FEN string yourself.

Nov-17-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: I blew it. I went for the 29. Bxf6 gxf6 30. Rxh7+ Qxh7 31. Rh1 line which basically nets a pawn (if you think a queen is worth two rooks).

I looked at 29. Rxh7, but I failed to visualize the pin of the g pawn after Nxh7, and I failed to see the continuation after 29...Kg8. :(

Nov-17-05  snowie1: This one Flohred me at first; 29.Bxf6..gxf6 30.Ng6+..Kg7 31.Rxh7+..Kxh7 32.Nf8 double +..Kg7 33.Rh1..Kxf8 34.Rh8+..Ke7 35.Qh7#!! Or, 28...Kg8 30.Qxh7+..Kf8 31.Ng6+..Ke8 32.Qg8# comment allez vous?
Nov-17-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <snowie1> Your line is <29.Bxf6..gxf6 30.Ng6+ Kg7 31.Rxh7+> But what if black had played 30...Kg8?
Nov-17-05  lopium: 29.Bxf6 wins.
Nov-17-05  snowie1: <YouRang> If 29.Bxf6..gxf6 30.Ng6+..Kg8 31.Rh6...now if 31...hxg6 32.Rxg6+..Kf8 33.Rh1!! This wins the Q at minimum, and both R's are still alive.
Nov-17-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: This one seemed to say to us:the king can run,but he can't hide. I missed this one,although I didn't spend much time on it. About this time,the puzzles get to hard for my small mind.
Nov-17-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <snowie1> Okay. However, lets assume the game went, as you say: 29. Bxf6 gxf6 30. Ng6+ Kg8 31.Rh6

Now, instead of 31. hxg6, black can answer 31...Qg7. How do you respond to this?

I would guess 32. Rh1, but then 32...hxg6 33. Rxg6 Re2+!

If we follow this line, we exchange rooks (34. Qxe2 Qxg6), and it looks like black is up by a bishop.

Nov-17-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: <snowie1> <if 32..hxg6 33.Rxg6 pinning the Q with White's Q at c2> I think you missed the point I made. Yes, 33. Rxg6 does pin the black queen, but 33...Re2+! forces white's to abandon the g6 rook: 34. Qxe2 Qxg6.
Nov-17-05  snowie1: <YouRang> I did miss that point. 31.Rh6 is a bad move in view of Black's Q to g7, so I need to look at that..it would lose the N and R's would be swapped...so I'll look for another move after 30...Kg8. Looks like 31.Nf4 with an eye to Ne6, cutting off the e-file and keeping Q off g7. In view of your help, that would seem to be the move.
Nov-17-05  LIFE Master AJ: I saw the whole combo in less than a minute. But to be honest, I did not see how deadly Ng6+ turned out to be.

A fine puzzle, once again, thanks to CG for the mental workout.

Nov-17-05  hayton3: I saw it in less than 30 seconds - so what.
Nov-17-05  ughaibu: 30 seconds for the puzzle gives you a DOUBLE LIFE Master rating. VAMPIRE Master? BIGAMIST Master? ESPIONAGE Master? MULTIPLE-PERSONALITY Master?
Nov-17-05  aw1988: <ughaibu> What are you drinking?
Nov-17-05  ughaibu: Squeezed lemon diluted with apple juice. You?
Nov-17-05  aw1988: Not tea, which is a travesty... one sec, let me make a cuppa.
Nov-17-05  Halldor: Got it, except I went for 32. Qh8+ which also leads to mate. When the white rooks are connected like this and the h-file half open, and even the queen is attacking h7 a rook sacrifice is in the air.
Nov-17-05  khense: <TTLump> Reply to your question about why it's harder to find these forced wins in actual games: Finding a needle in a haystack is a hard job. But a much harder job is when someone asks you to determine if there is or isn't a needle in the haystack. You're always wondering if it's not there or you simply overlooked it.
Nov-17-05  LIFE Master AJ: <khense>
A very good point!

Often times, my <Class "C"> students can work out a mate ... if I set it up for them and IF they know for sure that it is there. Yet, often times, they miss these things in their games.

Just last year, I was going over a game with a student. He got angry (at me) because he missed a mate in five. He got peturbed because I seemd to think that he should not miss that sort of thing. [He complained of all the times that he thought he had a tactic, and spent endless amounts of time looking for something, only to discover that it was a "will-o-the-wisp," and there was nothing there.] Developing a "nose" for tactics, knowing what to analyze and when, all of these things are part of the "growing up" process in chess.

BTW, GM A. Kotov addresses these problems in his book, "Think Like A GrandMaster." (I highly recommend this book to the more experienced player.)

Nov-18-05  Stevens: <you rang> sorry, only just saw your response - thanks for the information!
Nov-20-05  patzer2: The recent daily puzzle solution 29. Rxh7+! is a demolition of pawn structure combination, which actually began with the clearance move 28. Bxd7! Note how the followup 30. Rh1 uses the pin to set up a mating attack.

In the final position, White mates after 32...Kf7 (32...Ke8 33. Qg8#) 33. Qxg7+ Ke8 34. Rh8#.

It would seem 27...Re3? was a mistake, since 27...Bxh3+ 28. Rxh3 h6 29. Rd1 Kh8 would have given Black some practical survival chances.

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