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Wilhelm Steinitz vs Joseph Henry Blackburne
Baden-Baden (1870), Baden-Baden GER, rd 1, Jul-18
King's Gambit: Declined. Classical Variation (C30)  ·  0-1



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-08-14  Whitehat1963: Wow. Sarcasm, I hope.
Mar-09-14  Conrad93: Nope, no sarcasm.

I could beat this version of Steinitz.

Mar-09-14  Whitehat1963: Well, <Conrad93>, there's nothing quite like modesty.
Mar-09-14  Conrad93: A knowledge of modern theory would let me easily beat him.

He would be rated around 2100+ in today's world.

Mar-09-14  Whitehat1963: <Conrad93>, you just love to throw anything out there in hopes of being a lightning rod. Steinitz would be rated 2100 today, huh? Okay. Whatever you say.
Mar-09-14  Whitehat1963: I'm curious, <Conrad93>. What do you think of Steinitz's and Lasker's play in this game below?

Lasker vs Steinitz, 1894

Mar-09-14  Whitehat1963: Or this game?

Lasker vs Steinitz, 1896

Mar-09-14  Conrad93: That game is closer to the 2200+ level.
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Conrad: I could beat this version of Steinitz.>

Maybe, so long as no en passant captures were permitted.....

Mar-09-14  Whitehat1963: Lasker and Steinitz played a world championship match at somewhere below 2300-level chess. Interesting. Thanks, <Conrad93>.
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: If this, ah, logic applied, a fish like myself should be heartened by the knowledge that I would have had a fair chance of defeating either of those titans in a match.
Mar-10-14  Whitehat1963: <perfidious>, what is this business about the en passant captures? Please tell me that our resident chess genius is well aware of the rules of the game!
Mar-10-14  Conrad93: Perfidious, most likely you would have.
Mar-20-14  Whitehat1963: I'm curious, <Conrad93>, what you make of Steinitz's performance in this game:

Steinitz vs Rock, 1863

Is it still far below 2500-level chess?

Mar-20-14  john barleycorn: <Whitehead1963> Steinitz copied Morphy Morphy vs NN, 1857

and a mate in 6 ,well I guess <Conrad93> does it every morning before breakfast :-)

Mar-21-14  Whitehat1963: Indeed! Before breakfast!
Jan-29-15  poorthylacine: "I am here to learn": Blackburne was younger than Steinitz, but the last changed completely his way of playing after this tournament, and we see like a "new" Steinitz when we consider his games from 1873!! In the Vienna tournament of 1873, Blackburne by his enormous energy finished first equal with Steinitz, but the latter won mostly of his games like easily and in comparison, Blackburne finished the tournament exhausted: so Steinitz won the mini match against Blackburne after the tournament, and in their match of 1876, he even crushed Blackburne by 7-0, an unbelievable exploit!! The veritable positional style was born!!
Jul-30-15  zanzibar: Where/when is this game from?

Was it an offhand game from Baden-Baden?

Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: <Die folgenden Partieen wurden im grossen Turnier zu Baden-Baden> source: Neue Berliner Schachzeitung, Volume 7, pp245-246

Jul-30-15  zanzibar: Thanks <jnpope>, I'm just beginning to look at Schachzeitung's coverage.

The <Neue Berliner> introduces the games with:

<Die folgenden partieen wurden im Turnier zu Baden-Baden gespielt>

= <The following partieen were played in the tournament to Baden-Baden>

Since we already have two <Steinitz // Blackburne> games is there a conflict?

The other score (@g 1028860) seems to agree up to move 28, where it has 28.Rhb2 instead of 28.Na5

The move given here 28.Na5?? allows 28...Qxc3+ and seems to just throw the game away. Perhaps the other score makes more "chess-sense"?

(Black is winning either way - but 28.Rhb2 does look more plausible)

Jul-30-15  zanzibar: Oh, wait - I see <Neue Berliner> actually notes 28.Na5 as a poor move, and has analysis that could have been mistakenly incorporated into the movelist.

Gheesh... maybe I should check the other sources? (Ya think?!)

Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: Going to put through this game through some lab analysis, check back in a few hours. =)
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: Analysis completed!! =)
Jun-30-21  Stolzenberg: 7. ... Qe7 8. f5 = Steinitz vs Blackburne, 1870 played a few weeks before, where the bishop failed to reach an active square (c6) until move 16. Steinitz won this game after 42 moves.
Mar-07-22  Stolzenberg: Anderssen continued with 13. Nd2 Qd3 14. 0-0-0 Qxf3 15. gxf3, see Anderssen vs Dufresne, 1851
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