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Politiken Cup Tournament

Nick de Firmian8/10(+6 -0 =4)[games]
Michal Krasenkow8/10(+6 -0 =4)[games]
Gabriel Sargissian8/10(+6 -0 =4)[games]
Emanuel Berg8/10(+6 -0 =4)[games]
Vladimir Malakhov8/10(+6 -0 =4)[games]
Stellan Brynell7.5/10(+5 -0 =5)[games]
Allan Stig Rasmussen7.5/10(+6 -1 =3)[games]
Alexander Stripunsky7.5/10(+6 -1 =3)[games]
Jonny Hector7.5/10(+7 -2 =1)[games]
Evgenij Agrest7.5/10(+6 -1 =3)[games]
Igor Khenkin7.5/10(+5 -0 =5)[games]
Erik Zude7.5/10(+7 -2 =1)[games]
Kjetil A Lie7.5/10(+7 -2 =1)[games]
Krzysztof Bulski7.5/10(+7 -2 =1)[games]
Michele Godena7.5/10(+6 -1 =3)[games]
Tomi Nyback7.5/10(+5 -0 =5)[games]
Frode Urkedal7/10(+6 -2 =2)[games]
Linus Olsson7/10(+7 -3 =0)[games]
Helgi Dam Ziska7/10(+6 -2 =2)[games]
Stefan Christensen7/10(+5 -1 =4)[games]
Rasmus Skytte7/10(+4 -0 =6)[games]
Igor Teplyi7/10(+6 -2 =2)[games]
Viktorija Cmilyte7/10(+6 -2 =2)[games]
Peter Heine Nielsen7/10(+6 -2 =2)[games]
Christian Jepson7/10(+5 -1 =4)[games]
Torstein Bae7/10(+6 -2 =2)[games]
Mikhail M Ivanov7/10(+7 -3 =0)[games]
Frank Holzke7/10(+6 -2 =2)[games]
Lars Schandorff7/10(+5 -1 =4)[games]
Heini Olsen6.5/10(+5 -2 =3)[games]
Erik Blomqvist6.5/10(+5 -2 =3)[games]
Tobias Hirneise6.5/10(+6 -3 =1)[games]
(223 players total; 191 players not shown. Click here for longer list.)

 page 1 of 22; games 1-25 of 538  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves YearEvent/LocaleOpening
1. V Malakhov vs Martin Valla  1-0292007Politiken CupA25 English
2. Alexander Johansson vs G Sargissian 0-1372007Politiken CupE01 Catalan, Closed
3. Krasenkow vs N Petersen  1-0562007Politiken CupE12 Queen's Indian
4. John Holm Nielsen vs P H Nielsen  0-1292007Politiken CupA00 Uncommon Opening
5. Khenkin vs B Arvola Notkevich ½-½332007Politiken CupE81 King's Indian, Samisch
6. R E Andersen vs A Stripunsky  0-1392007Politiken CupB22 Sicilian, Alapin
7. E Berg vs P W Svendsen  1-0232007Politiken CupC41 Philidor Defense
8. F Preuss vs T Hillarp Persson  0-1242007Politiken CupB06 Robatsch
9. Nyback vs J Henrichsen  1-0332007Politiken CupA17 English
10. Timo Nurmi vs J Hector  0-1452007Politiken CupD04 Queen's Pawn Game
11. M Godena vs S Jensen  1-0342007Politiken CupC53 Giuoco Piano
12. D Kokholm vs E Agrest  0-1322007Politiken CupD00 Queen's Pawn Game
13. de Firmian vs D Andersen 1-0932007Politiken CupC12 French, McCutcheon
14. P Green vs K Lie  0-1752007Politiken CupA04 Reti Opening
15. L Schandorff vs T Skovgaard  1-0212007Politiken CupD37 Queen's Gambit Declined
16. J W Knudsen vs S Brynell  0-1162007Politiken CupC00 French Defense
17. G Rohit vs D Goes  1-0312007Politiken CupB04 Alekhine's Defense, Modern
18. W Mamak vs Cmilyte  0-1812007Politiken CupD02 Queen's Pawn Game
19. T Thorhallsson vs V Koskinen  1-0192007Politiken CupB01 Scandinavian
20. B Svanholm vs M M Ivanov  0-1342007Politiken CupA15 English
21. A S Rasmussen vs R Danielsson 1-0322007Politiken CupB20 Sicilian
22. M Frank-Nielsen vs M Karttunen  0-1302007Politiken CupB03 Alekhine's Defense
23. R Skytte vs K Tuomisto  1-0372007Politiken CupC28 Vienna Game
24. Preben Nielsen vs J L Hammer  0-1292007Politiken CupC46 Three Knights
25. M Antonsen vs L Petersen  1-0552007Politiken CupA58 Benko Gambit
 page 1 of 22; games 1-25 of 538  PGN Download
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2)  

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Premium Chessgames Member
  Troller: Hector-Thorfinnsson is interesting:

1.d4,d5 2.Nc3?!,Nf6 3.Bg5,c5 4.Bxf6,gxf6 5.e3 (in Ah Hamad vs Z Pengxiang, 2006, White played e4 and was crushed in 20 moves),Nc6 6.Qh5?!:

click for larger view

Of course, Hector is well-known for his original play, also in the openings.

Jul-26-07  nescio: <Of course, Hector is well-known for his original play, also in the openings.>

Well, although White lost quickly, the middlegame position in O Sagalchik vs I Krush, 2003 looks highly unclear. Hector should be in his element.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Troller: <nescio> Yes, but he took some time before playing 8.0-0-0 as in the Krush game. One would have expected him to be prepared for this line. Black plays 8..Bb4 and they are still following that game, although, judging from the time, none of them knows (or remembers).

Jul-26-07  nescio: <Troller> If Hector knows the earlier game, he may be searching for an early improvement, knowing the result.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Troller: Maybe. But he played 9.Nge2 just the same after more than a quarter of an hour's thought.

Meanwhile, deFirmian is trying to play solidly, but Sargissian has some annoying play on the Q-side.

Krasenkow-Nielsen after 21.Qb3,Rae8:

click for larger view

At first glance, white may have an edge because of his actively posted pieces, but I really have difficulties judging this.

Jul-26-07  nescio: Looking at your diagram, the position in Krasenkow-Nielsen seems equal to me. The black knight has a nice square on e5, hindering White's activity.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Troller: Krasenkow-Nielsen continues 22.Nd2,d3 23.Qxd3,Nd4 24.Bc4 with sharp play. Can Black play ..f5?
Jul-26-07  nescio: <Troller: Can Black play ..f5?> Good call. d4 is indeed an even better square for the knight, but I doubt that it's worth a pawn.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Troller: He did play ..f5, and now Krasenkow has B+N+R against queen. Postion after 28..Qxf5:

click for larger view

Obviously material advantage for White, but very difficult to play. His minor pieces are placed awkardly, and there may come lots of Q-checks. On the other hand, Black has to secure his back rank at some point, giving White a tempo.

Jul-26-07  Appaz: Nyback-Bae reached this position

click for larger view

where black of course played 61...Bxd4, but then they went on playing for eleven more moves until this position:

click for larger view

Wonder why they bothered.

Bae is btw playing for his IM-title. He needs to raise his rating to 2400, and he is very close at the moment. Scoring 50% in the remaning games should be more than enough.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Troller: Unfortunately local hero Nielsen lost yesterday. Malakhov maneouvred around until his lower rated opponent panicked and played d6-d5 to lose the game in oncoming time trouble.

Malakhov-Krasenkow and Sargissian-Hillarp Persson are the top games of today.

Malakhov-Krasenkow is so far a QGD, the Sargissian game QGA:

click for larger view

position after 4..Bg4

Premium Chessgames Member
  Troller: Stig Rasmussen may be the Dane to cheer for now the other Rasmussen got thrown out of the tour. He was a grand talent some years back, then took a break, but returned to chess about a year ago and has been improving rapidly.

Today he is playing Khenkin with White in a Caro-Kann that is following P Negi vs T Willemze, 2007 at least until move 14.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Troller: Malakhov has given Krasenkow something to think about with the rare 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 Nf6 4 Nc3 Be7 5 e3 0-0 6 a3

Krasenkow has spent more than twenty minutes so far. The move 6 a3 was used not long ago in the European Championship: D Shengelia vs K Landa, 2007

Premium Chessgames Member
  Troller: Hillarp Persson has spent more than an hour pondering 9.Qb3:

click for larger view

Meanwhile, Nielsen has a pleasant position and an hour on the clock against Nithander. The position in Malakhov-Krasenkow is just about to open up, but knowing these two, play is still level.

Jul-29-07  PaulKeres: I think that 10 rounds is too many, it is starting to be difficult to get the pairings. Also Malakhov has had too much time to recover from a poor start. I think 9 rounds is better.

Anyone disagree, and why?

Also interests me how they decided how many rounds to have in a Swiss. Anyone know any theory / maths on this matter, a www link perhaps?

Jul-29-07  Karpova: <PaulKeres: Also Malakhov has had too much time to recover from a poor start. I think 9 rounds is better.> Malakhov won the first 4 games
Jul-29-07  Karpova: Sargissian-Malakhov 1/2
Nyb├Ąck-Krasenkow 1/2

So Malakhov, Sargissian and Krasenkow have all 8 points

Jul-29-07  Karpova: De Firmian (won against Nielsen in a wild attacking game) and Berg (won against Schandorff) also got 8 points
Jul-29-07  PaulKeres: This proves my point I believe, that 9 rounds might have been better than 10, since we ended up with 5 co-leaders.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Troller: Politiken Cup actually used to be 11 rounds. This was kind of a specialty. Logically, more rounds should give a better chance for a single winner, but 1 extra round ought not to matter that much.

Nielsen btw presumably had a win somewhere in the last round. But a nice fight anyway!

Premium Chessgames Member
  sisyphus: <PaulKeres: Also interests me how they decided how many rounds to have in a Swiss.> How many rounds is up to the organizer. But the basic measure is that you need at least n rounds, where 2^n > number of players. By that standard, you can get a single winner - if someone wins all their games.

In this case, with 279 players, you should have at least nine rounds. Regardless, there's no way to prevent a shared first place.

Jul-30-07  PaulKeres: < Troller: Politiken Cup actually used to be 11 rounds. This was kind of a specialty. Logically, more rounds should give a better chance for a single winner, but 1 extra round ought not to matter that much. >

I don't think it's true that <more rounds give a better chance of a single winner>, as top players start to draw and "almost-top" players can catch up by beating the low rated players. ... I'll try to find a www link to help my argument here, a post it later ... be back ...

Jul-30-07  PaulKeres: ... Investigating more on this Swiss topic, and now of rounds. Its as fine balancing act, and headache stuff to think about for too long! :) but ofcourse you don't want too many rounds, as players will end up playing each other more than once (although this ofcourse is not a sin, but usually not done, gets messy). Too few, and you just have no chance of an outright winner.

As <sisyphus> correctly points out, its normally thought you need minimum of 2^n > number of players where n is rounds.

I was interested in a "rule of thumb" for a maximum no. of rounds before for example players start playing each other a second time.

The difficulty with chess ofcourse is the fact that there are so many draws - this complicates it all yet further.

After saying all this, I do like the Swiss way of doing things.

Aug-01-07  barbababa: <PaulKeres> <a "rule of thumb" for a maximum no. of rounds before for example players start playing each other a second time.> I thought they always play against closest opponent with whom they haven't played yet. E.g. if there are two players in the lead with 7 points and they have played allready against each other, they play against someone with 6 1/2 points. If they have allready played against all who have 6 1/2 points they play against someone with 6 points etc. So they could play (number of players -1) rounds without playing against same opponent twice.
Aug-02-07  PaulKeres: Yes, but its not ideal for players with different scores to play each other. Obviously though "7 pts v 6.5 pts" is fine though.
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