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Oct-14-07
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| refutor: i'm reading hillarp-person's book on the modern and v. 1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.c4 he recommends sticking to the averbakh (3. ...d6 4.Nc3 e5) and avoiding the king's indian (4. ...Nf6). of course he is writing a repertoire book ;) how do the local "modern" players play against 3.c4? |
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Jan-26-08
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| just a kid: I just recently played a game starting with 1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5?! It's the first timeled I played it,and I was behind a pawn for about 20 moves.The equalizer was White's tripled pawns!Then it was just doubled pawns,but then I doubled his f-pawns.By the way the rest of the move order was 4.dxc5 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 Qa5.I'll try to get the game if I can,and hopefully I can have success with this in future tournaments. |
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| Feb-20-08 |
| independentthinker: Guys,
I play the a6, b5, Bb7 version of the modern and rarely lose now - but my results with white are terrible!! Any ideas on a 'white version' of the Robatsch/modern? All comments welcome.
-Mike (www.myspace.com/thechesskid) |
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| Feb-20-08 |
| Tomlinsky: <independentthinker> Have you looked at Reti, Nimzo/Larsen, English setups and ideas? |
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| Feb-20-08 |
| independentthinker: No I haven't. What I like about Robatch/Modern is that I have time to co-ordinate my pieces and go into the middlegame at my own leisure. That is what I am looking for from a White opening. I noted the English is favoured by Karpov whose style makes a lot of sense to me, so maybe this is the way forward. What books/DVDs would you recommend to master this? Thanks,
-Mike (www.myspace.com/thechesskid)
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| Feb-20-08 |
| Tomlinsky: <independentthinker> The English sounds right up your alley then maybe. It's a long time since I have bought any literature on the opening but have played it for many years. Its positional character and transposing possibilities are fascinating and makes it as much about structures and creativity as the hard lines of many setups.
There are certain concrete lines and ideas that require, imo, dipping into Reti and Nimzo structures via transposition if you want to keep the English flavour of your setups. This may not be apparent at first and I would just start with symmetrical and reversed sicilian ideas before it becomes apparent why that should be so. There may be no need as it's a taste thing with the various opponents responses. Some are happy give Black a KID, for example, while others like to keep things English. It's very flexible. I borrowed a copy of Tony Kosten's 'Dynamic English' a few years back and thought it very good. It centres on a Botvinnik setup repertoire which I personally don't play much but they are as good a starting point as any it seems to me. If you do then migrate to other flavours it isn't wasted know how as many overall ideas converge anyway. Karpov has, I believe, just bought out a book on the English but I haven't seen it yet. |
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| Feb-20-08 |
| independentthinker: sounds perfect - thank you for your recommendation. |
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| Feb-21-08 |
| independentthinker: btw - what about the King's Indian Attack - someone else recommended that. |
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Nov-10-08
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| freeman8201: What is the difference between the Modern and the Robatsch? I see eric's note that "the move 1...g6 does not define the Robatsch" but in the diagram above show a win by white with Kasparov vs. Topalov, 1999. Look at the game and it's a Pirc! |
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Jan-22-09
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| blacksburg: would you believe that this is the 3rd most popular opening in the cg.com database? right after the reti and the c3 sicilian, and above the najdorf! |
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Feb-08-09
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| parisattack: <blacksburg: would you believe that this is the 3rd most popular opening in the cg.com database? right after the reti and the c3 sicilian, and above the najdorf!> Did not know that; interesting! Lots of paths in the Robatsch: The older main lines with ...c6/d6, the modern Tiger with ...a6, the Hippo, the Gurgenize with ...c6/d5, the North Sea with 2. ...Nf6. |
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Feb-09-09
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| An Englishman: Good Evening: <freeman8201>, the biggest difference between the Modern and the Robatsch is the name. Keene and Botterill suggested the name "Modern Defense" in their seminal and still useful early Seventies book The Modern Defense. Previously it had been known as Irregular, Robatsch, and even Mongredian Defense. The authors felt that the recent treatment of the defense was so unlike anything that had been played before that it deserved a new name. The bigger question is the difference between the Pirc and the Modern or Robatsch. The Pirc is almost always 1...d6 and 2...Nf6, while the other delays or even omits ...Nf6. Obviously, the variations transpose into each other frequently, and the openings annotators give assign to the games can be quite arbitrary and inconsistent. The good news is this: you're not confused, other people are! |
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Mar-30-09
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| parisattack: What's in a name? Pirc is generally ...g6 with ...Nf6 when White does not play c4. Modern is generally ...g6 without ...Nf6 when White plays c4. Robatsch is ...g6 without ...Nf6 when White does not play c4. In Chess on the Edge the argument is made that the Robatsch should be properly called the Rat. Robatsch or Rat, lots of ways for Black to play it:
Classical with ...c6 and ...d6
Gurgenidze with ...c6 and ...d5
Tiger with ... a6
Hippo with ...d6, ...e6
Pterodactyl with ...c5
North Sea with 2. ...Nf6
Kotov with ...Nc6
Most of them can morph into a Pirc with an early ...Nf6 I've seen also ...d5 and ...c5 though no one seems to claim it with respect to a name. |
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Mar-30-09
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| keypusher: <An Englishman>
"Modern" is a pretty presumptuous name for an opening that is so uncommon. If truth-in-advertising laws applied to chess the only defense that could be called Modern would be the Sicilian. |
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| Mar-30-09 |
| chessman95: <blacksburg: would you believe that this is the 3rd most popular opening in the cg.com database? right after the reti and the c3 sicilian, and above the najdorf!> I don't know where you got that. A simple search for games under the ECOs B90-B99 (the Najdorf) brings up 14,047 games http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... while a search for the ECO B06 (the Robatsch) only brings up 6,800 results http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches.... Going through the opening explorer brings similar results. As far as the debate on what the different names mean, I really don't have a clue. The ECO listing might be able to clarify some of this... |
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| Mar-31-09 |
| cuendillar: It's more accurate to say it's the most common <ECO code> rather than the most used opening. As you noted the Najdorf is split into ten different codes - the old main line Bg5 is split into 6 different codes, while the new main move Be3 is grouped with the most uncommon ones - making that the most usual code. The popularity of the Najdorf is much better illustrated by the fact that it is the latest-defined line in the top 20... |
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| Mar-31-09 |
| chessman95: <it's the most common <ECO code>> That doesn't mean much, because the Robatsch only has one ECO, while things like the Najdorf have many, so the beginning ECOs only cover minor variations, while the later ECOs only cover those very specific lines. |
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Apr-07-09
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| parisattack: Books on the Robatsch
Also quite a lot of material in: 1) Myers’ Opening Bulletins, 2) Rand Springer magazine and 3) Kaissiber magazine. Five of the little ‘Trends’ booklets on the ‘Modern’ Defence. No particular order:
Tiger’s Modern – Persson
Modern Defence – Speelman/McDonald
The Hippopotamus Rises – Martin
Black to Play and Win with 1. …g6 by Soltis
Winning with the Modern by Norwood
The Modern Defence by Hort
The Modern Defense by Smith/Hall
The Modern Defence by Keene/Botterill
The Modern Defense by Chess Digest
The North Sea Variation by Bickford
Averbakh system by Thomas
Modern Defense Averbakh Lines by Schiller
New Ideas in the Rat by Schiller
Die Robatsch Verteidigung by Warzecha
Die Eidechse 1. …g6 und gewinnt, 3 volumes.
The Robatsch has always been my favorite black defense. If anyone can add to this list, it would be appreciated! |
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| Apr-07-09 |
| chessman95: <parisattack> Do you know of any books that specifically cover the Pterodactyl, or any of those books that have good sections on it? I'm interested in learning more about that 'system'. |
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Apr-07-09
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| blacksburg: <chessman95> <I don't know where you got that.> i found that statistic on this page -
ChessGames.com Statistics Page
yeah, of course the sicilian is played more, but i just thought it was interesting that robatsch was 3rd on this particular list. |
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| Apr-07-09 |
| chessman95: <blacksburg> I didn't think to look at that page. The only problem is that with things like the "Najdorf" listed as B90, it only counts variations without ECOs, like the English Attack and other 'minor' Najdorfs. Lots of interesting things on that page though... |
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Apr-07-09
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| parisattack: <chessman95: <parisattack> Do you know of any books that specifically cover the Pterodactyl, or any of those books that have good sections on it? I'm interested in learning more about that 'system'.> For as common (relatively) as it is, there's not much on it. A few short mentions, a game here or there. Winning with the Modern by Norwood has a chapter on the Pterodactyl. Check the most current entries on Eric Schiller's page here on CG.com. He has played it a lot and apparently has an ebook on it forthcoming. |
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Apr-08-09
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| parisattack: On my list of Robatsch tomes I neglected to mention: Konigs-Fianchetto by Schwarz. I think this was the last (1984) of the once well-known Schwarz opening series. Can anyone add to the list - English or foreign? |
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| Jun-26-09 |
| V Snakoto: For some useful information on the Pterodactyl variation with ...g6, ...Bg7, ...c5, and ...Qa5, see Eric Schiller's lengthy article at: www.chesscountry.com/
article_show.php?articleID=167 |
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Nov-11-09
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| parisattack: Opening of the Day and no comments on my favorite defense? Like hypermodernism in general it is under a cloud at the moment. Lots of fun variations to the Robatsch to fit different styles, much uncharted territory... I had good success with the Gurgenidze Variation and when it is played nowadays it seems to continue to do well with adventurous players still essaying new ideas and move orders. |
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